Engine Monitors, JPI-900 VS EI CGR 30P On 65 M20C?

[Michael Saathoff]

Any Pireps for the JPI-900 VS the EI CGR 30P for engine monitoring on the M20C and where to put either in this panel? I was thinking either EI CGR 30P where the Tac and MP/FP gauges go or replace the cluster with the JPI-900?

Thoughts greatly appreciated.

[Mark942]

I installed the JPI 900 a couple years ago and absolutely love it.  I placed it in the general location of your Tach/MP as you suggested and that seems to work fine.  The monitor does pretty much everything it claims it will do. I did the install myself and then my AP/IA inspected it and did the paperwork. The instructions are good and I had no problems what so ever.  I have since had an engine issue that was easily trouble shot by sending data to Savvy which confirmed what I and my AP thought.  Sorry but I have no experience with the EI CGR 30P.  Either way, now that I have it, I simply can't imagine going back to the steam gages and a single analog EGT with no CHT.  Best of luck. You will not regret putting this money into your plane.

-mark

[KSMooniac]

EDM 900 is the best option for any Mooney IMO.

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[Ned Gravel]

7 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

EDM 900 is the best option for any Mooney IMO.

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+1 for the 900. Don’t have one yet, but it is way better than the 700 I have now. 

[ShuRugal]

Installed the EDM900 about six months ago.

What it came down to for me was footprint and screen usage.

The CGR 30 is a circular gauge which displays square data blocks. As a result, it provides far less information or square inch than the rectangular EDM 900.

You also have to buy two CGR 30s if you want to do a full primary gauge replacement, whereas the EDM 900 will display everything done by the original analog gauges in one box.

Those were the deciding factors for me.

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[S.C.]

Add another vote for the EDM.  I placed mine where the Tach/MP was and found little difficulty getting accustomed to it vs the old gauges. I’ll be using it for diagnostics like Mark942.  Being able to download engine data and share it with your mechanic is huge!

[0TreeLemur]

10 hours ago, Mark942 said:

I installed the JPI 900 a couple years ago and absolutely love it.  I placed it in the general location of your Tach/MP as you suggested and that seems to work fine.  The monitor does pretty much everything it claims it will do. I did the install myself and then my AP/IA inspected it and did the paperwork. The instructions are good and I had no problems what so ever.  I have since had an engine issue that was easily trouble shot by sending data to Savvy which confirmed what I and my AP thought.  Sorry but I have no experience with the EI CGR 30P.  Either way, now that I have it, I simply can't imagine going back to the steam gages and a single analog EGT with no CHT.  Best of luck. You will not regret putting this money into your plane.

-mark

Ditto to everything written above.   If you install it on the RHS of the radio stack, then you have to put a warning light on the pilot's panel.  You can see mine just above the AI.   You'll find the JPI EDM900 is a fantastic addition to your C.  With 4 CHT's and EGT's you can really manage the engine well, lean with confidence, and rapidly detect problems.   Savvy lets up upload/view data for free.  If you subscribe to their service you get quarterly reports from them that compare data from your EDM against the fleet and let you see how you well you manage your engine.

Not only that, you get rid of that hard-to-read vintage Garwin instrument cluster, and no longer have pressurized fuel and oil lines passing through the firewall.  I'd say bang for buck, it is the best thing you can add to your C.

 

[DXB]

11 hours ago, Michael Saathoff said:

Any Pireps for the JPI-900 VS the EI CGR 30P for engine monitoring on the M20C and where to put either in this panel? I was thinking either EI CGR 30P where the Tac and MP/FP gauges go or replace the cluster with the JPI-900?

Thoughts greatly appreciated.

First of all, great idea to put in an engine monitor - I feel it's had a significant safety dividend and made engine diagnostics much easier.  I've had a JPI EDM900 replacing all my factory gauges since 2016.  It's a good unit but took some time and quite a bit of hassle to get it sorted to the point of being free of bugs and reliable, even though it was put in by an experienced and competent installer.  JPI customer service is subpar, and so that exacerbated the issue significantly. 

With the EI CGR 30P, it can't replace everything in one unit - you end up short one item - e.g. the fuel gauges.  Options are a different digital fuel gauge vs a setup with 2 CGR 30Ps.  EI's quality is very good, and their customer support is supposedly stellar - If I had to do again, I'd go with EI for customer support alone, even if I paid substantially more.

3 suggestions:

- Consider keeping your analog RPM and MP gauges - I wish I had.   I know from personal experience that a malfunction in power setting detection is very disconcerting.  But disconnect the fuel pressure side of the MP gauge - that's driven by a fuel line that comes into the cockpit all the way up to the gauge itself 

- Whichever unit you choose, install it on the LEFT side of your panel.  I promise you have enough room to do so.  You will thank me later....

- The install is a good time to modernize your fuel senders (CiES digital) if you are inclined to do so.  

[McMooney]

I'm planning on installing the garmin gi275 based eis, one primary instrument instead of 2 for the EI

[jamesm]

I have the EI CGR30CandP models installed  in a '67C. One thing I really like about them is that I have the surefly ignition  with the electroair ignition switch panel and when I start my engine it runs so smoothly sometimes overlook or don't even notice that the right  mag is still off and the CGR  displays when you have the left or right mag off .  I'm not sure if JPI or Garmin  GI275 or their other EIS displays do that

[Oscar Avalle]

I installed the jPI 900 several years ago and I love it. Easy to read and interpret.

The only problem is that a mechanic tried to clean the screen and he smeared it. I called JPI and they are ready to exchange it but it would take some time. So I am going to wait until I am back in the states.





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[TheAv8r]

I've been investigating this same question on my E model, here's what I've found so far:

• JPI probes are more reliable and last longer than EI probes. I have a friend who's replaced the EI CGR probes on his plane 3x now, he had a JPI 830 installed on 2 other planes and never has had to replace them. He highly recommended to me to go JPI for this reason alone, as it has been a consistent pain to mess with.
• Highly recommend going with CiES Fuel Senders while you're at it so you can have accurate fuel measurements.
• The JPI 900 is great if you're looking for a compact solution. Where I think they suffer is that the numbers, especially for things like Fuel, Oil T, Oil P, etc., are pretty small. I have G5s in my plane and I know exactly what the size of the G5 numbers look like in reality. So when I saw this picture of the G5s and 900 right next to each other and saw how tiny all the read-outs were compared to the G5 numbers which are NOT big, I went whoaaa.... 
• 

 

So this made me then consider the 930, which I am now planning on doing to my panel. No arguments on portrait v landscape orientation, still the same functionality, but look at how much more legible everything is, especially compared to the picture above.

[Michael Saathoff]

3 hours ago, jacenbourne said:

I've been investigating this same question on my E model, here's what I've found so far:

• JPI probes are more reliable and last longer than EI probes. I have a friend who's replaced the EI CGR probes on his plane 3x now, he had a JPI 830 installed on 2 other planes and never has had to replace them. He highly recommended to me to go JPI for this reason alone, as it has been a consistent pain to mess with.
• Highly recommend going with CiES Fuel Senders while you're at it so you can have accurate fuel measurements.
• The JPI 900 is great if you're looking for a compact solution. Where I think they suffer is that the numbers, especially for things like Fuel, Oil T, Oil P, etc., are pretty small. I have G5s in my plane and I know exactly what the size of the G5 numbers look like in reality. So when I saw this picture of the G5s and 900 right next to each other and saw how tiny all the read-outs were compared to the G5 numbers which are NOT big, I went whoaaa.... 
• 

 

So this made me then consider the 930, which I am now planning on doing to my panel. No arguments on portrait v landscape orientation, still the same functionality, but look at how much more legible everything is, especially compared to the picture above.

I was having trouble visualizing, this is as wonderful/helpful post.  With that said, the spot I have available, I was concerned was too small as I don't want to reconfigure the entire panel.  This gives me comfort that I can put a 900 in portrait mode in the spot of my old Tac and Manifold. 

 

[MMsuper21]

For me the most economic route was doing a CGR 30C (being installed in the next couple of weeks) for RPM,MP, FP, Oil T, Oil P, Fuel R, Fuel L, and Amps. Along side I have an Insight G2.

In my opinion the most cost effective route to reap most benefits is a G3. Its not primary for anything outside the CHT/EGT but if your steam gauges are working, it will give you all the diagnostic data for trouble shooting and display them. The G3 would have stopped me from spending an extra 5 Amu's. 

Takes little space and will avoid the upgrade the entire panel bug.

Depending on your available funds and priorities G3 will provide all information however not being primary.

[Marauder]

I was having trouble visualizing, this is as wonderful/helpful post.  With that said, the spot I have available, I was concerned was too small as I don't want to reconfigure the entire panel.  This gives me comfort that I can put a 900 in portrait mode in the spot of my old Tac and Manifold. 
 

I think your decision comes down to available real estate, your eyesight and budget. As Dev mentioned, a good engine analyzer is a great tool.

I started off with a basic Insight GEM in the early 1990s. Just being able to see all of your cylinder’s activities was light years ahead of the factory CHT and EGT probe on cylinder 3. I evolved to an 830 but knowing what I know now, I would have gone directly to a 900 instead of upgrading from the 830.

That said, as Dev also pointed out, having some redundancy gives you some backup in case of JPI failure in flight. I opted for a set of EI primary gauges as backups. I have a MP, RPM and fuel totalizer (pressure, flow and total fuel quantity) gauges as backups.

As for JPI and EI service. My 900 has been serviced at least 5 times. Two times for electronic issues and three times for displays. They are using a new display currently. The old displays had some sort of glare protection and the new ones not coated.

My EIs have had zero issues. I had the fuel totalizer installed way back in 1993 and when I had the EI MP and RPM gauges installed in 2013, I asked EI why my display on the fuel totalizer looked different. They had gone to LEDs offered to upgrade my 20 year old fuel totalizer to LEDs and check the unit out for $60. They are a good company.



As for the new display, you can see the increased glare in this photo.




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[Igor_U]

Five years ago I had the same dilemma and decided going with CGR30P for all the functions except Fuel capacity. That I solved with 2 1/4" Aerospace logic FP202 gage and adapter for 3 1/8" hole.

CGR30 is just great, no issues whatsoever for thee years and install is straightforward once you find a space to install its box (CPU?) on the inside of the firewall. Their support is also great and helpful. I highly recommend them as well as AL FP202 fuel gage. Keep in mind later one will need calibration for both reservoirs in 2 gallon increments (it takes time!).

 

Good luck